Jukka, how about the roots of Finnish Death Metal? How did it start to develop?
Everyone found extreme metal on their own I guess. I mean, I only knew of few people around greater Helsinki area, some were into grind core, some hard core punk and fewer still into death metal. Most people in our scene were into speed and thrash metal at that point.When the bands started popping up, people were curious. I do remember a lot of metal fans being dismissive with the growled vocals and the harsh, very distorted sounds.
The Finnish Death Metal scene has been revered for years as one of the best around in the early 90s, do you agree with it?
It’s for others to judge, I merely do vocal duties for one band. I did really like some of the bands and still do. However, I dropped out of DM scene around ‘92 or so all together, the technical style was taking hold and my musical interests were elsewhere.
Was it a kind of goldmine, considering how many outfits were active around those times?
Goldmine seems to refer to wealth, but I guess you mean in terms of quality? You could think of it like that, but Finnish scene was and is a bit different due to the way we are as a nation. Quiet and reserved, so we don’t really “mingle” or do “networking”. Finns don’t really make friends easily, it takes a lot of time to get that sort of trust.
So I guess, yes and no. Lots of activity, not a lot of scene action within Finland, most bands seemed to be better connected outside of Finland.
Do you think, that the single most influential medium on the country’s burgeoning Death Metal scene was Klaus Flaming’s weekly radioshow Metalliliitto* (The Metal Union)?
Good question! I don’t know.
When I got into DM he used to play a lot of generic metal (your Megadeth’s and Testament’s and what have you) along with smaller bands releases, new styles on occasion and one or two tracks off demo’s here and there. I think towards the late 80’s I was much into underground extreme metal that these bands found their way to his show almost a year later. I think most people thought he was “mainstream metal” (what a ridiculous idea in the late 80’s) and wouldn’t play extreme metal, so they didn’t even send their music in.
His show was really important for the speed and thrash scene I think. I think stopped recording his show by end of ‘88 or so, but I know lot of friends still tuned in quite vehemently. * I added the second i in “Metalliliitto” for you.
You (I mean Finnland) didn’t produce the same amount stuff that Sweden and Florida, for example, produced, but quality took over quantity, correct?
I wouldn’t say that, but I would say that our scene didn’t have the same mindset and they might’ve had.
We insisted on being as original as possible, instead of doing what someone else did. As in “Sunligh”, “Morrisound” or “Entombed guitar” sound for every band or release of a certain time. We did take influences from, well all of those probably, but to us it was important to hide the source by tweaking it enough. If you listen to different releases from the same year, they’re all very different in sound and style choices. I remember being a bit offended when someone would say “I like that one Funebre this or that on your demo”, while they ment it as a compliment, we would find that defamatory and would probably change something to hide any possible actual influences.In our case it is also important to note that money was tight, so we had to make compromises. Like I’ve said before, the demo and EP sounds are not sought after as such. It’s what we settled with the resources we had, while the alternative would’ve been to put in more money and see if you can make it any better.
Do you think that Finland perhaps suffered more from a distinct lack of promoters and venues?
Well yes, but so did everywhere else for all I know.
Finland is a small country, so special sub-genres didn’t have dedicated promoters, let alone venues. Most of our gigs were at youth centers, basically old buildings repurposed for communal use, used by local amateur theaters, different kinds of hobby groups and so forth. Dedicated metal and rock clubs came decade later, I went to my first metal club in early 1990, I know there were few weekly and monthly clubs towards the end of the 80’s, which played goth/industrial/punk stuff, but that wasn’t my jam at all.
Was the ingenuity and ambition of the Finnish death metal movement simply an early example of the metal underground’s freewheeling spirit?
Yes, maybe… I dunno. In what sense? I don’t think I understand the question.
When looking back on the blossoming death metal scene of the late 80’s/early 90’s and indeed its global impact, the regional distinctions are rather clear (Florida, New York, England, The Netherlands, Sweden). Did the territorial essence of the genre spawn a rich and diverse metallic underworld?
I wasn’t entangled with the underground scene that much, so I can’t really say, except to what I observed from afar.
I think the UG started to shatter as soon as parts of the scene got their break and went to make a living off the music. Then the underground got stagnant, keeping to its trenches without evolving. But this is how it goes in everything. When things get territorial and confrontative, the game’s essentially over until something disrupts the status quo and things splinter in one way or another.
And again, as with anything, there is always the one or two assholes who will not agree to anything or with anyone. Sometimes they’re just total dicks, but very rarily they are the visionaries (usually not).
If Swedish death metal was influenced by Swedish hardcore, then the Finns seemed more akin to UK death/grind, right?
We were, at least, yes. But as with all those scenes, the roots were in speed/thrash metal as well as hardcore. And later hardcore took influences from metal, so it’s quite a merry go round!I mean, we certainly took influences from UK (our FB page still says “Carcass, Napalm Death, Bolt Thrower”), but the list should just as well have Morbid Angel, Slayer and Nihilist/Entombed and Sacred Crucifix, Rytmihäiriö on it.
Abhorrence was formed in 1989 by you on vocals, Tomi Koivusaari and Kalle Mattson on guitars, Jussi ‘Juice’ Ahlroth on bass, Kimmo Heikkinen on drums respectively, how old were you and how did you get together?
Just school mates who wanted to play metal. Me, Tomi and Kalle were in the same school, Jussi and Kimmo were from the next suburb over, who we saw at gigs and events. Someone knew someone else and eventually we wound up in the same band.
I think Kalle was 14 when we started the playing together, this was before Abhorrence. During the band’s lifetime I turned 18 and the other dudes we’re between 15-17.
Did you have enough experience, talent and skills to form a group?
No, definitely not. But we learned as we went along. We were constantly playing at the edge of our abilities, so you “git gud” very fast, or at least you got better.
By the way, was Abhorrence for all of you the first band, that you played in?
Nope. We had several other speed/thrash outfits before, I think we called ourselves Disaster before Tomi and Kimmo joined. It was me, Kalle and Jussi, plus lots of people who came and went. My friend Mika Hautoniemi was on the other guitar for quite a while, before we found death metal. Tomi left a speed metal band called Violent Solution to join us to start a death metal band, that ended up as Abhorrence.
Were you one of the originators of the Finnish death metal sound and were you the first to solidify the Finnish style?
Finnish scene was all about originality and distinct sounds for each group. It was a matter of pride to sound unique and not copy anyone, atleast in a way that would be too obvious. So we were in the scene very early, but there were others before us in the scene.
What were your views on the Finnish scene at this point, when a lot of bands were popping up from every part of Finland, such as Funebre, Convulse, Demigod, Unholy, Beherit, Belial etc.?
It was very exciting, in the beginning we only knew few other bands, but by the end we had met some really cool people and bands. The scene was mostly thrash and death metal slowly started gaining following, by that time we already broke up.
How about your early rehearsals, songwriting process?
It was “I have a riff” and then we made a song out it in rehearsals. Sometimes there would have a rough song prepared, but we usually got rearranged those quite a lot. We did go to the practise room a lot, it was basically the only thing we did on our spare time.
Is it correct, that a rehearsal 12/12/89 was recorded? Was it spread around in the underground trying to make a name for the band?
I don’t know. We recorded several rehearsals, some of them went to the b-sides of the demo cassettes that Kimmo and Tomi sent to people. It was just something bands did then, as studio time was very expensive. I don’t think it was promotional, at least not in the way it’s thought of today.
February 11th, 1990 came out your first demo, entitled Vulgar Necloratry (recorded and mixed at Syke Oy Studio, 9 and 11 of February 1990), were you prepared to record the material, when you entered the studio?
We knew the songs really well and had played them a lot, but as far as studio work, we had no idea what we were doing. The studio was for a jazz band’s own use, the engineering guy had no idea what was going on and he was very indifferent. He was there just to make some extra money.
How did the recording sessions go?
We had fun and managed to get something out of it. So I guess it was a success.
Would you say, that you borrowed equally from early Carcass and early Bolt Thrower?
No, I would not. We liked those bands a lot, but we tried not to borrow anything. In fact, we wrote several parts over, because someone said they sounded like some other band. We didn’t want to sound like other bands at all.
Did you add any supernatural creepiness, probably from Slayer, but you also took inspiration from the likes of Nihilist, Autopsy and Morbid Angel, do you agree with that?
We did add things we thought were cool, ideas from H. P. Lovecraft and Clive Barker, also influences from all those bands. They were very important to us as a source inspiration.
Is it about as crude as death metal can get while remaining listenable?
Others should decide those things. We wanted and aimed for as brutal of an end result as we could, being primitive and raw was few of the goals we had in mind. Our attitude was rather punk in the sense that we didn’t care how we were viewed and we wanted to do things by ourselves as much as possible. Being listenable or easy was the opposite what we were about, conforming to trends was also something we actively tried to avoid.
How do you view, that the songs are longer and more complex than one might expect for a band at this stage of their career?
Are they? If you compare to other bands, maybe so, but why compare?
Did you build the intensity by speeding up and slowing down?
Aesthetics and delivery were important. The guys knew how to build up momentum and then deliver the punch, but I view that as songwriting capability and craftsmanship.
Is Vulgar Necrolatry an obscure significant demo?
You tell me. Since it wasn’t really spread that much outside the scene, you could call it obscure, sure. Everything is relative.
Is its atmosphere rotten and putrid?
This is what I’ve been told. Haha! We called it “fucking brutal”, but then again we called everything we liked brutal.
In 1990 two more rehearsals (20/3/90) and Macabre Masquerade (5/8/90) were recorded, what kind of goals did they serve?
None that I know of. They were possibly recorded to have something to keep the tape trading going, since we only had one demo out. Maybe that was the reasoning, but I don’t know if that was the case.
Is it correct, that the latter stuff was never officially released, but somehow leaked to the public?
No, it was all recorded and given out on purpose. The EP did get spread out a bit before the vinyl came out, but that wasn’t a problem, since usually people wanted the final product too.
Vulgar Necrolatry appeared on Morbid Noise – Abomination 4 (Septicore, 1990), did it help you to expand your fanbase?
I hadn’t heard of this compilation before this and don’t know anything about it.
Were there any label’s interests in the band at this point?
The interest came after we broke up, which is how Amorphis got the Relapse deal. Tomi told them we broke up, but he has a new band instead and they ran with that.
How and when did Seraphic Decay Records get in the picture exactly? Did they offer you a deal/contract?
I actually don’t know the nitty gritty specifics, but I think they sent a letter to Kimmo or Tomi about their interest. There were some phone calls back and forth, so we went into the studio and so forth.
Was it the only one company, that wanted to sign you/showed an interest in the band?
During our existence, yes, I think so. But the interested companies came out later, I heard later that few others had looked into signing us and promptly found out we had broken up.
You entered the TTT-Studio in June 30th – July 4th 1990 to record your next effort Pestilential Mists/Abhorrence Ep, how did Timo Tolkki (Stratovarious) end up becoming the producer of the material?
We were friends. Well before recording anything, from time to time we would hang out at Timo’s place, his then wife and the rest of us would drink beer, listen to new music. Usually we would spin some new records, someone wanted to introduce new music and brought them along or Timo might play some studio demos they had recorded for the upcoming Stratovarius album (demos as in trying out how it sounds or arrangements work in recorded form). So we asked if he would want to record our stuff and maybe get a but of money for his efforts, he agreed. I’d also say he didn’t so much produce us, but let us do what we wanted and made it work as best as he could.
Did you get on well with him during the recording sessions? Was it easy to work with him?
Well, yes, he was a friend of the band. I do remember him being a bit frustrated with us, mostly because and I quote “you want me to do everything wrong, exactly the opposite of what I was taught about studio engineering”. He had so much top of the line guitar gear available, all that early 90’s modern rack mounted rigs galore; all the harmonizers, sound processors, preamps, switchers and all kinds of shite like that. After fighting with these things for an hour to get the guitar sound we were looking for, we decided to go with what had worked for us before and once again played all guitars through a mic’d up Fender Sidekick Bass combo.
Is it some of the most ominous death metal ever made?
Again, not my place to comment. We made it as brutal as we could
Is the music based on short blasting sections which are stitched together with longer slow ones?
If you’re talking studio wizardry and editing; no, it’s not. Everything was played live to tape (DAT I think), instrument track by track, no splicing involved. If you’re talking… I don’t know, arrangements or something; sure, but isn’t all music basically short ideas stitched together later.
Did you capture the same inexorable momentum that Bolt Thrower had?
No, definitely not the same, but I think we did manage a merciless vibe of our own.
Do you think, that you have made small tweaks to your sound since the Vulgar Necrolatry demo?
Compared to the demo, EP was on totally another level. The guy recording and engineering it was actually interested in what was being made. He had top of the line in his disposal and had a background in metal himself. So actually, no, we didn’t make small tweaks, we made strides with the sound.
You have toned the Carcass influence down a little, haven’t you?
No. We’ve always been quite open with our influences, they just don’t come out in the music, for we are not Carcass, nor do we want to be. Also, we never wanted to be grindcore, but ultra strange and brutal death metal.
This EP was also re-released on the Seraphic Decay compilation CD, how happened?
They released it and didn’t tell us about it. I only heard about the compilation about 15 years later. Seraphic Decay was a total shit show anyway. The guy ripped all of the bands off he worked with. I think the deal was we would get 10% of the vinyl copies made, so it was 50 copies for us and he would sell the rest of the 500 copies made. After that we lost contact, but heard he made new pressings with different coloured vinyl and never contacted us again.
Did you have any material written those times, that didn’t make up on your releases?
Just the tracks that are now on the Completely Vulgar -compilation. We played Bolt Thrower’s World Eater and Mobid Angel’s Chapel of Ghouls as a live cover songs on a few occasion.
Can you tell us about your early live shows/performances?
It was drunken chaos. Lots of stage diving to audience by the audience. The stage often had more audience on it than band, which was quite annoying. Just for future stage divers, you should jump off faster than you get up onto the stage. At one show I remember my first growl came out with beer foam all over the microphone. I was very drunk and nobody noticed.
Is it correct, that Kimmo Heikkinen was replaced by Mika Arnkil at this point?
Kimmo quit all his musical activities, sold his records and instruments, stopped replying to letters and gave all Abhorrence related things to Jussi. Mika was a stand-by for him, until we find a new drummer of he decided to stay or leave. After our trip to Norway, he decided to leave and continue with his old band.
What kind of reasons did lead to the band’s split those times?
Confusion, lack of action of any kind and generally moving on with our collective musical taste. After the first 6-7 months of the band being really active and getting quite a lot of interest from our peers, it just stopped. The EP release would be something like 7-8 months in the future, but we didn’t know it at the time. It felt stagnant and guys wanted to do something else.
Tomi Koivusaari went on to join Amorphis, but what have the other guys done after Abhorrence’s break?
Studíes, children, careers and that sort of thing. Check Encyclopaedia Metallum and Discogs for everyones music related endeavours, you can find Abhorrence’s pages here https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Abhorrence/688, https://www.discogs.com/artist/398670-Abhorrence-2
Did all of you remain in the metal scene and kept an eye on what’s going on?
No, not at all. Well, I did, but I fell out of love with death metal with the uprising of melodic and technical death metal. I went the other way and dived deep into doom metal, at first it was death/doom, then funeral doom, but eventually traditional doom as well and then found stoner rock or desert rock as it was called back then. I ended up DJ’ing for a while, it was close to professional for some time, I had a monthly club called Stoner Hands of Doom Club for a few years and so forth. I also wrote reviews and interviews for few magazines and a lot of webzines.
The band was reformed in 2012 and since then three materials (Completely Vulgar compilation – 2012, Totally Vulgar: Live at Tuska Open Air 2013 – 2013, Megalohydrothalassophobic Ep – 2018) were released, would you say, that there was a demand for the band from the part of the fans?
Yeah, I guess I would say that, as people came to see us, Most of our shows have been sold out and the crowds at festivals have been decent at least. Also, the live was recorded in 2013 and released in 2017.
Did you manage to reach a cult status?
I can’t answer that, but there have been other people who say that.
How about the band these days as a whole? Are you working on new material, playing shows here and there or…?
Yeah, we just played a show last weekend (29.3.2024) after quite a brake from playing live. We’re now trying to focus on making new tracks and getting ready to hit the studio later this year or maybe next year. Hopefully.
Jukka, thanks a lot for your answers, what are your closing words for our readers?
All the best to everyone, hope to see you at a show sometime, somewhere! Remember to support your local independent record shop, support small bands by buying merchandise directly from them and go see them play live. Finally, be positive, especially online! Try to be constructive and find the positive view in any discussion! Nobody cares if you “hate this or that”, but if you frame it so you can explain why you really like something, you have a good chance of getting a productive conversation going.
